Gambian President Jammeh Breaks Long Silence Over Alleged Killing Of The Ghanaians

22 June 2009

After four years of investigation, the president broke the silence on the alleged killing of the eight bodies of the Ghanaian nationals.

The UN fact finding mission, according to the GRTS interview, has exonerated the Gambia either directly or indirectly from the alleged killing of the Ghanaian nationals. Here is full text of the entire interview.

"Firs of all, I thank the Almighty Allah who will always make sure that the truth will prevail. This is one very sad episode. First of all, you can remember that the issue of the Ghanaians whose bodies were found around Ghana Town; it was my government that reported it. We called the community in Ghana Town to go and identify them. They said they cannot identify them; they don't even know who they are. But originally when the matter was reported to me what I thought was maybe it was ritual killings, because at that time also there were some cases going on in Ghana of ritual killing. There were a lot of rumours of some strange rituals.

The other thing that came to my mind was that they were all predominantly fishermen, they might have had a fight at sea or somewhere and this people were killed there.

So, it was not only the Ghanaian community who were invited to go and identify them, but also we invited all African missions in the Gambia; all African diplomats in the Gambia. The reason why we did not call others is because the bodies were all blacks, Africans. So we invited all African diplomatic representations in The Gambia, including honourary counsels representing other countries here in The Gambia to go and identify them.

I insisted that I think they must be Ghanaians. The guy said we cannot identify them because they did not even have any papers. I said to the guy but you should be able to identify them, because you, as Ghanaians, you should be able to have certain features and the guy said Mr. President we cannot identify these people; we cannot say whether they are from Ghana or even Gambians.

So anyway, nobody could identify them. Then I said if we took them to the mortuary and still allow the public to go and identify them, maybe one or two people would be identified and it did not happen and up to two weeks. In fact, they should be buried after nine (9) days according to the law. I extended it to another two weeks, nobody could identify them until the security services told me look we have even the then minister of Justice who said we have gone beyond the limit; still they could not be identified. They have to be buried and also they occupied space in the mortuary. He said that others do not have space in the mortuary because of the presence of these eight bodies.

I said ok, now you can go and bury them, since nobody could identify them. After when they were buried, I remember I was on holidays in Kanilai, in 2005, when I was told that the president of Ghana wanted to send a special envoy and is very urgent. So I was worried as to what was going on because myself and Kufuor, are best of friends and we consult each other in a number of issues. So I was wondering since everybody was told that I am on leave, what would be so urgent that he has to send the then Foreign Minister (Ghana).

I said ok. I came down to Banjul only to be told by the then Foreign Minister that Ghana got a report that the government of The Gambia is killing Ghanaians. I looked at him and said 'is this a joke?'. He said we are serious that 150 Ghanaians have been hunted and killed by The Gambia government. I looked at him and said I think one of you must be sick to think that The Gambia government will hunt 150 Ghanaians and kill them. And he said in fact all together the number is (168)158, when included 150 Ghanaians and 8 Nigerians. I said 'where?' He said this is what we have been told by the eye witnesses at the killing. I said good. Maybe there might be eye witnesses, but all I know is that 8 bodies were found around Ghana Town and that is what I know. But the 150 you are talking about, you have to get the person who was there, and where did they come from. What have they done in fact that will make us to kill them just like that? You think this is a government of bandits? I cautioned him and I told him look, 'you have to be careful of what you read in the internet and all there are exaggerations. What we know is only 8 bodies and the government did not hide anything about that, this and this and that.' I told him 'well go and find out I don't think this is correct. What we know is that when the bodies were found, there was a group of nine buses that came from Senegal of Ghanaians and Nigerians. What we know they cross Amdalai and we told them to send them back. That is what I know. So if 150 Ghanaians were killed, where were they killed? Where did they come from? They said they came from Senegal to do what in the Gambia? They said they were on their way to Europe. I told them in fact the normal routine is that Gambians go to Senegal to take boats to go to Spain, not the other way round. Gambia is not a transit point to Europe by those who go by sea.' So anyway, then the case was being blown out of proportion saying this and this and that and investigations had to be carried out. You told me that they came from Senegal. Now you have to tell me that 'What where they doing in Senegal? How did they come to Gambia?' He said they came by boat. Up to today they did not give us the name of the boat that brought them, who was the captain of the boat that brought them, and all we were told was one Mr. Kofi of Togolese/Ghanaian origin was responsible for the groups coming to The Gambia. Up to today, even the UN could not know who Mr. Kofi is. And I told them 'well if that is the case, you have to find out from Senegal where you have got the information from. Who brought them and why? What were they doing in Senegal and what were they doing in The Gambia? And the boat that brought them and for what purpose?

I told him 'look unless you give us this information, we are not going to cooperate for you to investigate and it will start from Senegal.' That was the time the border closure between the Gambia and Senegal happened and it was also a campaign against the Gambia to host the 2006 AU Summit. Not only that, but also for me to be chairman of ECOWAS and that time my best ally in West Africa was Mauritania and Ghana and so killing of the Ghanaians will create problems between me and Ghana.

So anyway, things were dragging on, and I told them unless you start the investigation from Senegal, we are not going to cooperate. We have to know what they were doing in The Gambia. Who brought them? And also why was it at the time of our July 22nd celebration, as you alleged.

Anyway, it was going up and down and I realised that the then Foreign Minister has a political ambition and was supporting Ghana that the government of the Gambia has something to hide. I made it very clear that only an idiot will think that the government of the Gambia kills people and do not even know where to hide them to the extent that some idiots are putting it on the internet that we were hiding them at "Coloban". There is no place called 'Coloban' in The Gambia, and there is one who said he excaped from 'Coloban' and ran up to 'Bungkiling'. The so-called eyewitness said in fact, they were in the ferry and he could hear communication between the navy and the ferry. I said well so he had a communication device let him come and give what he had. But anyway up to today they did not bring that eye witness. But the bottom line is we have no cause to kill anybody. And then strangely enough, I said let the case go to ECOWAS. The case went to ECOWAS and people suggested that the then Foreign Minister of Ghana has political ambition to become president started to sign and say Gambia should accept the killing and just pay compensation. I said if that is the case we are not going to pay a dime for compensation; to compensate for what?

I said if that is the case that you want to play about with the whole scenario, then you are making a great mistake. As far as I know you wanted to use this as politics so as to contest for the next presidential election. I will tell you if that is the case, you are not going to win the election. And what is even more important is that we have nothing to hide. But now since this is situation some people are just suggesting 'Oh! Gambia should just admit the situation that they died in the Gambia but the government did not know anything about it, but should just accept the compensation'. I said 'to accept compensation means an acceptance of guilt. If you don't know the law, I know the law. I did not study the law, but I know the law to the letter. Compensate for what?' They said so that we can close the chapter. I said 'No, there must be a thorough investigation and since the ECOWAS did not want to start the investigation where it should, that is Senegal, where these people allegedly came from, we are not going to cooperate.'

Now since the issue is blown out of proportion, some opportunistic groups took the matter to the Commonwealth. And I said 'Ok, I don't want ECOWAS to investigate simply because they can be bias. So what I want to see done is for ECOWAS to hand over the case to the UN.' So the case is taken to the UN to investigate to select any panel to come and do an independent investigation. Each country has to find a representative to represent them. We had a problem as to who should represent us. And then Ghana said we were dragging our feet. But guess what, we had our representative and Ghana had no representative. So the UN guaranteed that since Ghana did not get their representatives they have to sign that whatever the panel comes up with they will accept it. So the investigation started up to the time when they are about to conclude, then Ghana sent their representative in the panel, anyway.

UN conducted their own independent investigation and they came up with a report. Part of the report, I do not agree with up to today. Now we have been vindicated, either directly or indirectly, that the Gambia Government did not involve, and they do not have any evidence to show. The eye witness who came from Ghana was also banking on contradictory statements up to the end of the investigation.

But what is more important is that, in the report, there is one Lamin Tunkara who they said is at the centre of this, who paid 93,000 or 73,000 thousand U.S dollars, i'm not sure about the figure, to somebody to bring these people to the Gambia, which is very strange. If this guy is a human trafficker, one would expect the victims or the would be migrants to pay the trafficker, but in this case 93,000 thousand dollars were paid by this Tunkara to a captain Tailor and up to now even the UN panel do not know who this captain Tailor is. Mr. Kofi disappeared according to initial investigation reports. In the findings of the initial investigation, this eye witness said Mr. Kofi was arrested by the Senegalese when he came to the Gambia after the under 17 finals between the Ghana and Gambia. Where he is arrested, and where he is, it is only god who knows. But this Mr. Kofi was the man who was at the centre of the trafficking.

So coming back to the report, they did not find anything and what is even funnier; they couldn't find anything that links the Gambia Government directly or indirectly. And for that, we have been vindicated. But they came up with a very funny paragraph that says "Despite all that, they believe that may be, "may be" (president Jammeh's emphasis), it does not stand in a court of law, that may be some rogue elements among the Gambian security services were part and parcel or collaborated with the traffickers. But at the end of that sentence also, the report also said they don't even know how and why these people would come and enter the Gambian surreptitiously around 6am at a time when we are celebrating our July 22nd celebration and that there was no evidence that shows that there was a boat waiting for them in the Gambia to take them anywhere. There was no boat.

Now they cannot tell us who is this captain Tailor, Mr. Kofi and Mr. Tunkara who they said are nowhere to be seen. But they said because of that there is some evidence that some West Africans died is the Gambia, West African dead bodies and is true that others have disappeared and are nowhere to be seen. They are presumed death. But the reality is the 8 bodies which are found who are they going to blame for?

So the exaggerated number that they are talking about, they should only go to Senegal to do their findings. They also said that because the dead bodies are found in Gambia, the Gambia government should compensate the Ghanaians simply because we have failed to protect them; it is the duty of Gambia Government to protect the lives and properties that are found within the jurisdiction this country.

As they said I agree with some part and completely disagree with other parts of it which is that Gambia government should compensate Ghana. If you say we should compensate Ghana, were these people in our custody? We can only be responsible if these people are in our custody or people who are arrested by the Gambia government, and then if they died in our custody that is the time you can say the Gambia government has responsibility. But we cannot be responsible of people who entered in our country illegally, with an unknown ambition and you want us to be responsible of those people. We can be responsible for people who come to the Gambia legally and . But if a person is killed at Ghana Town, may god forbid, that is the time we can bear the responsibility. But to say dead bodies are found in the Gambia and we should pay compensation to Ghana, that is unacceptable and part of the report is accepted. I said there are other countries that Africans died in their territorial waters and if that is what you are talking about then go claim the death compensation for the Gambians who died between Spain and Canary Island, Mediterranean, Libya/Chad border. If you get me that compensation then I will be able to consider your decision. Otherwise, it is unacceptable what you are talking about.

I told the foreign minister of Ghana that the fact that the Gambia government did not make any involvement into this issue, according to law that shows that the matter should be closed. But to say that because they died in the Gambia, Gambia government should be responsible; that we have failed in our duties. I consider that as an insult and it is unacceptable.

So they were trying to work out a mechanism that I have to take into consideration; the African humanitarian perspective, and that I should at least contribute some amounts to the funeral. I said 'well for that we can do but calling for compensation we will not give you a dime'. So this is where we are. I said to them that even the UN panel did not even know why they are here in the Gambia. This creates a lot of reservations. Those who are arrested here are taken care of and for them they said they were never tortured, nobody beat them up, they were found to enter the Gambia illegally and that is why they were detained and handed over to the Gambian authorities.

This is where we stand and for that Clause we will never accept but became they were found in the Gambia, Gambia government fails responsibility, at least we should have protected them. But how can you protect somebody whose presence in your country you don't even know.

So this is where matters stand. And what is even amazing is the fact that because of the irresponsible garbage on the internet,( which)creates some bad image for Ghana to go against the Gambia to the extent that some Gambian students, who returned from Ghana, were subjected to all sorts of harassment. And in fact one of the lecturers said 'some Gambians killed our brothers in Gambia. We will not kill them but maim them.' That was irresponsible.

So from a simple case that could have been treated amicably, it was blown out of proportion, hijacked by cynics and detractors and they think that they were making progress.

This is why we did not want to respond to the media. One thing I know is that when a "dog barks, you don't have to bark", because I am not a dog. So I know they . anything but one day the truth will prevail. And in fact some groups took the matter to the Commonwealth that the Gambia should be expelled from the Commonwealth because of the violations of human rights. But this report has shown everything.

So this is the bottom-line. But Gambians were subjected to a lot of harassment in Ghana and the reasons were very obvious. Some countries in Africa did not want us to host the AU.

In 2005, there was a debate as to whether the summit for the 2006 should be held in the Gambia. At that time in AU whoever automatically hosts the July summit will automatically become the Chairman of the AU. When they realised that there is nothing that they could do about it.

The Gambia's choice of hosting the AU 2006, the decision was taken by myself in early 1998. Some of my colleagues were even asking me 'why 8 (eight) years?' I told them I know I need 8 years to prepare, because by the time I'm hosting it nobody will help me. Because the West is against me and most of you are 'lackeys' of the West and you will not support me in terms of finance. So I need to save up to eight years so that I will be able to host it.

The then president of Botswana said 'but I'm your friend and I will help you'. I said to him that I can count on you but not on many people here. Some will only pay a lip service. But the bottom line is at that time also I was supposed to be the Chairman of ECOWAS and Deyda Hydara was shot. Then they said it is the Gambia Government; that Yahya Jammeh killed him, and one of these websites was constantly asking 'Who killed Deyda Hydara?' Let them go and ask Deyda Hydara who killed him, not me.

Anyway, what is important is that they use that and there was a so-called Press Freedom Conference held in Dakar and most of times they will come with outrageous comments about the Gambia that there is no press freedom in the Gambia. God has vindicated me today.

What is even more important is the fact that at that time Kufuor was my best friend. Gambia had an executive secretary to the ECOWAS and Kufour appealed to me through Obasanjo to allow them to present a candidate who was not even mentioned before. Because of the extent of our relationship and also GRTS was also brought (up) by the Ghanaian personnel, that is how I accepted it. So you can see how close we were to Ghana. Ghana was a reliable ally and Ghana together with South Africa defended the Gambia to host the AU. Hence the decision was taken in 1998 and must be respected. There are people within the neighbourhood here who campaigned vehemently against that.

When they realised that there was no way, Olusegun Obasajo decided to host and said that 'Ok and from now on hosting (summit) in July does not make you Chairman of the AU'. I told my then foreign Minister to tell him that if he is looking for title I'm not the head of state who is going around to look for titles. Whether I am going to be Chairman or not, I took a decision since 1998 to host it, and I am going to host it.

If it is said that I am not going to host it, then that should be considered as the AU history, because I was one of the principal architects of the AU. And that time many of the countries that are claiming credibility were totally against it, including some of our neighbouring states. So they think because I am not going to be chairman, .. I will say I am not going to host it. So when they realised that this did not dampen our spirits and our zeal to host it, then they said we wait for the meeting in Sudan, where Obasanjo wanted an extension of his Chairmanship. We made it clear to him that will not be possible and you will not have it. That is why he couldn't stand it. Nigeria has always supported almost all countries that have hosted the AU.

Some of neighbouring countries were going around the whole world (to spread) that we did not even have an airport where to park planes. They said we don't even have electricity; that we don't even have hotels. So where are we going to have rooms for the heads of state? The same lies that they told the OIC (Organisation of Islamic Conference) that the Gambia did not even have facilities. I told them if they are competing well for us we are not competing (for the) hosting the OIC. God will judge us. So it was a combination of factors. Gambia was supposed to host the OIC, AU and also can be a permanent member of the Security Council (UN) and I made it very clear that there is no law that said a smaller nation cannot be permanent a member of the Security Council. And each of us must have one vote and because of that 10% percent of the heads of state stood up against the Gambia and say one thing after the other.

And what is even amazing, the eye witnesses to the killing of Deyda Hydara are still in Senegal. All attempts made by the NIA failed. Somebody from the international community wanted to engage me in discussion, I told him 'tell me, they have said that we killed Deyda Hydara, and if they tell you the reason why we killed him, all the time they will not able to tell you a good reason why we killed him, and the Amnesty International said why are they still keeping those two ladies who were eye witnesses to the scene. The eye witnesses were questioned here and they gave their statements and then they were taken to the RVTH, where they disappeared into Senegal. The last time they went there, they could not have access to them without from the Senegalese authority.

So anyway 'Who killed Deyda Hydara?' And by the time Deyda Hydara died, the investigation has revealed that one of the ladies who was involved with him, who was in the car with him, her ex-husband was in The Gambia, a Senegalese, for that matter, who was trying to make negotiations for her to reconcile with him and this particular gentleman left at 10am in the morning it was discovered that Deyda Hydara has been shot. Up to date, we could not have access to that person to question him.

So how could they just sit there and say 'call the FBI', 'call the MI5' to come and investigate. After all, they have never invited a foreign group to come and investigate. A case of a Gambian who has died, our security personnel are competent enough to investigate into all matters and so far they are investigating into murder cases and come up with suspects, some of whom, have been tried. So why were we not given access to the eye witnesses and wanted to subpoena FBI to come and investigate. I will not take that for anyone.

So all along there is just this campaign against the Gambia and I also observed that each time the Gambia is praised by the world economic forum, there will be something on the internet. That Jammeh has killed this; Jammeh has killed that. Thanks to God, today we have satellite and the people out there will know what is going out there.

So the issue of this Ghanaian, despite all this, Kufuor has all along been my best friend and I said you tell me he said we just want the investigation to be carried out and I said yes. I told him that I will invite the UN to investigate. But for the investigation that is to be carried out by ECOWAS, I'm not really in for that,because already their minds have been poisoned. Instead of investigating at the initial stages, they are saying we should just accept responsibility and pay compensation. I said I am not going to compensate anybody for anything. We have not done wrong. And I told them that if they understand the law; if you say I am guilty, you can no longer come back and say no I am not guilty. He (Kufuor) said my brother, 'I have nothing to do with this. All I want is for the matter to be investigated', of which I agree. But all the time I do continue to have a very good relationship with him. Elements, especially the then foreign minister, who has a political ambition and wanted to become president, is campaigning against the Gambia; that the Gambia has killed Ghanaians in the Gambia. I always cautioned them that we should treat this case with conscience and told them that 'do you know the number of Ghanaians that are living in the Gambia peacefully?', and Ghanaians are the only community that have their own town in the Gambia, without any hindrance or harassment from the Gambia government. .

When everything that they plotted failed then the last plan was to have him overthrown and that was the 21st March coup attempt in 2006 and when we have Western diplomats here, it was a ploy we waited until they talk we put their confessions on T.V for people to see and now they are even saying on these were even extra-judiciary executions.

If I am to kill anybody I will not be afraid of anybody on the surface of this earth, the person will die and at the end of the day, I will account for it tomorrow before God. That is why I am very careful of what I do. To be a president does not mean that I'm God. I am not God. I'm just a human being who is very careful of what I do and with people. I will not use my power to suppress anybody. People will be surprised to know that that there are people who have been sentenced to death, including rebels who attacked Farafenni and Kantong, have been sentenced to death since 1997 and they are still in prison. It does not mean if somebody's death sentenced has been confirmed.. he should (be) executed. We have not executed anybody.

I am not a killer ... But there people out there who hate to hear Yahya Jammeh, and they will hear my name for the next 1 billion years, whether they like it or not.

So Gambians should understand that the smear campaign, there are people in our midst that will do everything to suppress and sabotage our economy and each time they do that God pushes us higher and higher, I thank the Almighty Allah for saving us.

Coming back to the report, one interesting thing that no single country will accept is that hence they died in the Gambia that means that the Gambia government fails to protect them and for that they have to be compensated. How can you take care of somebody whose presence is not known by you. Something that happens at the night towards 6 am in morning, how do you think the Gambia government knows and it was during the celebration of July 22 celebration, a that time in fact we were at the July 22 square. And they because they died in the Gambia, Gambia government has failed to protect them. We have not failed to protect anybody in this country.

Well, hence Kufour is not the president of Ghana, this will make it to rest, what I have accepted to negotiate is that one to take the bodies to Ghana, and Gambia government's contribution towards the funeral is not compensation but you know the African tradition, and I made it very clear that if they insist on compensation we will not accept it simply because we are not responsible for those deaths.

That is what we are doing out of humanitarian and out of African solidarity, and there are no indications that they died in the Gambia, the bodies might have(been) brought into the Gambia and then taken to Ghana town.

And interestingly, when countries are put into alphabetical order, you have Gabon, Gambia and Ghana. At the AU we sit side by side. As I said this sad episode did not interfere in my relationship with the then president of Ghana Kufuor. But.. the foreign minister of Ghana almost fought the foreign minister of the Gambia in his office, Balla Gaye. I told him look why would Gambia killed Ghanaians here. They came to my office and I asked him to give me a tangible reason why Gambians would kill Ghanaians here? I said to him is it a bad joke? He said is not a joke but said it is true. I said to him how you can tell me that it is true. All that we know is that 8 bodies were discovered. He said the eyewitness said they came from Senegal. I told him can the witness tell us what they were doing in Senegal before coming to the Gambia. He said they were to take a boat. I told him that Gambia is not an exit point to go to Europe. Gambians go to Senegal. in fact I told him that there is a Senegalese name for Gambians, which is "Kanya Port" (Wollof language) or Port rat, meaning those who want to join the boat to go to Europe.

So now that the truth is out, I don't think there should be any reason why this should create a clash between us and Ghana. But it is up to the Ghanaian government. We have been vindicated and that is the ..important thing. The truth is out and we have nothing against Ghana or Ghanaians. Ghanaians in Ghana town have never been harassed by anybody. You still have the Ghanaian communities here doing their business. But this brought some harassment to the Gambian students in Ghana, which is not done by the Gambians to the Ghanaians in the Gambia. But despite all this hostilities, the students pass all their courses and are flown back to the Gambia with flying colours.

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